Birth Support Plan

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Carla Lett: Hello, everybody, and welcome to my bumped babies expert. Podcast today I am joined by the lovely Katie Bolton, the

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Carla Lett: owner of a fantastic company. We’re actually having a bit of a giggle around this mother Gaia.

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Carla Lett: And Katie is amazing all things birth. And I’m really excited to have you here, Katie, today. So could you introduce yourself.

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Katy: Yeah, so like you said, I’m Katie and I set up Mother Gaia not quite a year ago.

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Katy: but I have been in this sort of industry for about 10 years now. So my first, st my 1st official qualification in reflexology and Aromatherapy was in oh, God! It was 2010! So that’s 14 years ago.

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Carla Lett: Oh, wow! Gosh! That’s amazing. You don’t look old enough, Katie.

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Katy: Very much.

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Katy: And yeah, I’ve got a big birthday next year. I’m 40.

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Carla Lett: Oh, are you? Oh, wow!

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Carla Lett: Oh, that’s amazing! So you love, I mean, you really help people with everything birth, don’t you.

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Katy: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I started off originally because we were having trouble conceiving.

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Katy: And so I’d already had things like I said, the reflexology, the aromatherapy things like that. And we went through 2 miscarriages, and there was no rhyme or reason we covered. It’s just one of those things. It’s like it can’t just be one of those things.

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Katy: So I actually upgraded all of my stuff that I had. So my aromatherapy, I moved into pregnancy, Aromatherapy, my reflexology. I then did advanced reflexology, so that I could do fertility, help, and actually started helping other parents and get pregnant. And I became a Reiki, master teacher. And I helped that way as well. And so yeah, I put a lot of things in, even before

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Katy: we had any children, or I decided to go into actual birth work.

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Carla Lett: Oh, that’s lovely!

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Katy: I haven’t.

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Carla Lett: Amazing that you’ve done that.

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Katy: Yeah, so yeah. So when we when we eventually got pregnant and I had my 1st son.

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Katy: I think I did that whole thing of oh, I’m very naive, and you know you’ll just breathe the baby out, and it’ll all be fine and blah blah. And then, when I got to it. It was like, What is this? Why did no one tell me.

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Carla Lett: Oh, yeah, I know. Oh, bless you! So have you, with all you’ve got. 3 3 boys, haven’t you?

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Katy: Yeah, I have. Yeah.

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Carla Lett: And was it the 1st one that was like a bit traumatic? Or do you find.

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Katy: Well, yeah. And so, my, my 1st one, we we started off with a home birth, and we I labored at home. And what happened in the end. I mean, I have. I have various different stories, but, long story short, they couldn’t find his heartbeat.

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Katy: but it was more because they couldn’t tell the difference between mine and his rather than him. Not having a heartbeat. And because they only have those little dopplers they’re like, well, we need to transfer you into hospital, and I think I was in hospital for less than 20 min before I actually gave birth to him.

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Katy: and I was there, for I think I was overnight that night, and we went home the next day. So it wasn’t.

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Katy: It wasn’t majorly majorly traumatic that the my second birth was the the traumatic one, and

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Katy: it was during 2020, the lockdown. So everything was horrendous, anyway, and I think

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Katy: I was only a few weeks pregnant when we went into the 1st lockdown.

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Katy: so my partner couldn’t come to any of the appointments, couldn’t come to any of the scans, and never met our midwife. Well, I had a named midwife, but I never actually met her, and I think I spoke to about 5 different midwives over the course of my pregnancy, and then never spoke to them again.

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Katy: And they did all of the usual tricks of all where you’re going to have a big baby, and this that, and you’re there, and if you don’t have an induction when we tell you to, you’re going to be pushing out a dead baby and all this kind of stuff. So I was coerced into having an induction.

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Katy: even though I really didn’t want to.

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Katy: and I.

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Carla Lett: Can you explain, Katie? Sorry. Would you mind explaining what an induction is just for anyone that’s been through? Maybe a previous C-section, or or just doesn’t know.

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Katy: Yeah. So basically, an induction is where they medically set off labor. There’s a few different ways of doing it, and some are more less evasive than others.

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Katy: But for me, that was, and I got the gel. So you can have things like a pessary, or you can have a balloon, or you can have gel, or you can put you on a picketin and drip.

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Katy: But I was started off with the gel, and and it’s it’s a hormone based gel that they put on your cervix, and it’s meant to soften your cervix and start

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Katy: your contractions off.

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Katy: But I for me, I hyper reacted to it.

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Katy: So I went from nothing at all to 3 contractions in 5 min,

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Katy: continuously for 2 h

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Katy: without being dilated.

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Katy: And so, as you can imagine I was a bit knackered, and we did that for 8 h

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Katy: without actually being dilated without baby being anywhere near ready to come out. I was just literally having contraction of contraction, of contraction over and over and over again for 8 h before they went.

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Katy: We’re not getting anywhere. We’re going to give you this another drug

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Katy: to bring to like subside the contractions.

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Katy: the thought behind that being that the contractions will be more progressive and actually do something. But what it did for me was completely cancel it out. So it stopped entirely.

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Katy: So they did the same thing to me the next day.

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Katy: and by

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Katy: later on that evening, and they then popped the waters. So they went in with a little hook

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Katy: into my cervix, manually ripped the bag. Waters came out, and then baby was another

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Katy: 3 or 4 h after that, at very heightened contractions.

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Katy: I think I had every every type of drug go in apart from an epidural, because I was too far advanced for an epidural.

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Katy: And

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Katy: I actually didn’t get all the pain relief that I asked for because they were short staffed.

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Katy: and they didn’t actually have enough staff to double sign and the

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Katy: decent medication. So I was on gas and air for most of it, literally crying in pain, and I thought I was going to pass out at 1 point because I was in that much pain, and there was just no no support, because, like I said, they were just, they were just so short staffed, and everything was against us. And I’ve seen a few things recently

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Katy: about induction of labour and

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Katy: people saying, Oh, well, I was induced, and it was perfectly fine. And yeah, it can be all right for some people, and especially if you’re being told what’s happening.

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Katy: You prepared for it.

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Katy: But I wasn’t.

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Katy: All I had to go off was my original

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Katy: birth with my 1st son.

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Katy: which yes, was a bit of a surprise, but I was like, well, it’ll just be like that again. But actually, it’s not because your body’s not prepared. You haven’t gone into spontaneous labor. You just you’re being manually put into labor. So your body doesn’t have chance to keep up. And for me it was really really painful, really traumatic, and really just everything about it was awful.

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Katy: And and I remember thinking to myself then, like.

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Katy: there’s got to be a better way. There’s got to be a better way of someone telling me that this is what’s happening. There’s got to be a better way of being educated about it. There’s got to be

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Katy: someone else, because obviously your partner for the best one in the world.

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Katy: They’re then like

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Katy: they’ve got their heart in for you. And they’re like worried because

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Katy: you’re in pain, and there’s nothing that they can do for you, and they don’t know what they’re meant to be doing.

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Katy: They kind of got a mush.

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Katy: so they’re stood there like 6 o’clock half struck, holding your hand, not knowing what to say to you, because they don’t know what’s going on either, and it’s like there’s got to be someone in the middle

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Katy: that converts all of the medical jargon and the stuff that’s going on, that the midwives or the consultants, or whoever, because they’re doing their job, don’t have time to sit with you and say this, this, this and this.

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Katy: There’s got to be someone in the middle to be able to sort of like, translate that. Which is why I then looked into what a doula was.

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Katy: and that’s where I found. Well, there’s this thing, there’s this whole.

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Katy: that there’s so many people out there who have all these extra bits like, say, like a doula

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Katy: who literally their job is to translate everything from right. Well, this is how this works, and that’s how that works. And this is what’s happening now. And are you all right with that and

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Katy: that kind of stuff that like I said the the

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Katy: the midwives and things like that. They just don’t have the time. They don’t have the staff.

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Katy: and it’s

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Katy: not working how it should do, because they’re under so much pressure.

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Carla Lett: And a lot of the midwives I speak to as well know that there is those issues, obviously. And you know it’s hard for them, because, you know, they’re doing that job because they really want to support people through birth. But unfortunately, with the lack of midwives, it’s it’s virtually impossible to give anyone. I want to say a good service. That’s probably not the right word, but you know what.

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Katy: But it is, though, because they’ve got so yeah, well, they’ve got so much stuff they’ve got to do. They’ve got so many tick boxes they’ve got so much admin to do. They’ve got all this other stuff, and I think I saw something the day. There’s like 3 3,000 midwives down like throughout the Uk. I mean 3,000 people to be short staffed by that amount just in one service.

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Katy: You’re not going to get the service that you want, and I mean, even in our area, we don’t have a home birth service. They stopped it during Covid and never brought it back because they don’t have the staff.

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Katy: but then that’s.

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Carla Lett: But.

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Katy: Yeah. So then, that’s a whole area that actually is promoting health and mental health and being safer that you give birth at home.

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Katy: It isn’t it isn’t an option. It is an option, but it’s not an option with the Nhs.

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Katy: So yeah, I feel for them. But the entire service itself. I just think it needs tearing down and starting again.

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Carla Lett: And a lot of people, if they don’t know that there’s other options like you didn’t know there was another option, or you didn’t. I suppose once you go into birth first, st second, even 3rd time sometimes, if you, if that’s your 1st traumatic time, you think there’s got like you said there’s got to be another way. What else is there.

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Katy: Yeah.

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Carla Lett: And I think about knowing what’s out there before you actually go through. That is quite important.

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Carla Lett: So in in regards to the Doula side of things. Just to recap. What? What is it a Doula actually does then, for people that aren’t sure.

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Katy: So a Doula is.

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Katy: I don’t like comparing them to midwives because they’re not. It’s not the same thing, obviously, as a midwife. You go to university, you do a minimum of 3 years. You you go into like hospital settings. You can administer medications and things like that.

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Katy: A doula doesn’t do that. So, as a doula, I do obviously understand how birth works, and like the mechanics of of birth and and the stages of labor and things like that. But

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Katy: it’s more about being that extra sort of support. It’s about giving people a little bit of like advocacy. I like to think so. You can be as the birthing person sitting there saying, Well, I really want a home birth or a water birth, or

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Katy: I I don’t want

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Katy: I don’t know I don’t want the vitamin K, or I do want the vitamin K, or whatever it is that you’re that you’re thinking about.

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Katy: But you’re not the sort of person, and let’s be fair. None of us are when we’re giving birth. We are very, very vulnerable. We’re not in that position to go. Oh, just hang on a second while in between these contractions. Can I just remind you that XY. And Z. Please, because you’re not there, and you’re in your own headspace. And what have you? You just need that other person like a Doula

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Katy: to stand between you and someone else and say, Oh, well, in their birth plan. They want XY, and Z. And can we just double check what you’re doing with the person who’s given birth? Just so that your voice is heard. And it’s also that thing about having someone else who

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Katy: again, like we said, like your partners, are very emotionally invested, and they want the best for you and the baby, and sometimes they can go a little bit to pot.

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Katy: So you need that other person to back, partner up as well and go. You’re doing really well. Tell her she’s doing really well, and and just have that little bit of something else.

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Katy: and and again, like home births and stuff. If you can’t have a home birth on the Nhs.

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Katy: To have somebody else there who understands birth, what it looks like to be that support, even if all they’re doing is running about getting towels, or getting you a glass of water, or something like that. So you’ve got your partner there holding your hand, which is where you want them to be.

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Katy: You know that everything else in the background sorted out.

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Katy: and obviously I provide a little bit extra to my service. I know other Doulas have got things like hypnobirthing and stuff like that. I incorporate my reflexology and my aromatherapy into that, and into the pregnancy and into the birth world.

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Katy: But it’s just an add on, really, it’s something.

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Katy: But if you want it, it’s there, it’s available.

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Katy: And so yeah, so there’s a big. There’s a big difference between being a doula and being a midwife, even though

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Katy: we kind of walk in the same circles. We don’t have the same job.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, yeah, I understand that. And and I think for you to understand it.

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Carla Lett: You understand it in a different way to someone else. Say, giving birth now or giving birth tomorrow on their own. You can kind of see you’re almost a bit a few steps ahead of where they need to be at that stage, aren’t you like? Oh, they’ll need a water in a minute, they’ll need this. Have we done this? Have we done that? And it’s, yeah. I totally yeah, love.

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Katy: The other things as well that you’re not when you’re not in the headspace for so like when you go through Transition. Baby’s just about there, but you have this rush of adrenaline as the birthing person, and you go. Oh, my God, I can’t do this! This is awful, and I’ll just like, give me all the drugs and get me out of here and just do whatever you need to do.

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Katy: But if you have someone there going, you’re in transition. Love.

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Katy: You’re fine.

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Katy: Everything’s okay. Your body’s doing what it needs to do.

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Katy: You can’t bring yourself out of that state without someone telling you that you need the outside influence to go. You’re all right. It’s fine.

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Katy: and that’s kind of what a Doula is there for is that outside influence to go. You are all right. We’ve got your back. You’re doing what you need to do.

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Katy: Let’s go.

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Carla Lett: That’s that’s exactly it. I love how you explain that because I mean I had

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Carla Lett: I had a Caesarean with George, and it was all. It was terrifying at the time, because I didn’t expect it. I was bleeding. I was like 33 weeks, and it was just so frightening and like it traumatized me for years. Even now sometimes I think about it, and I think, Oh, my goodness, you know, like actually so, when I had Olivia, I was like saying to the woman, I’ve got terrible health anxiety after I had George as well.

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Carla Lett: and like I kept saying to the lady, is my heart rate. Okay, am I going to die? Am I going to die? I genuinely like, it’s just that reassurance that your body’s doing what it needs to do. This is part of the process. Signing those forms is normal, you know, because the doctor came running in these forms like, you need to sign right, you could die. No, that’s what it felt like. But actually I had to sign those forms again, but in a different scenario it was very different, because it was prepared, you know.

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Katy: You understand what’s going on? Yeah.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s important. And it’s like someone like you being there and saying, Yeah, these forms are normal. Everyone has to sign them. When you go through these. It’s just that kind of

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Carla Lett: instead, because doctors as good as they are. They’re amazing. I mean, I wouldn’t be here, and I’m sure many of us wouldn’t be here without the doctors, but sometimes the way they kind of speak it’s just not got the cotton wool around it. And you’re like.

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Katy: Yeah.

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Carla Lett: I’m gonna die. What’s going on, you know.

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Katy: Yeah, you just need someone to take that couple of seconds to go. Okay, we need you to sign these forms. They’re just a waiver, or even if it’s just a case of like

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Katy: you kind of prep for it beforehand. I’ve always said that you prep for the best case scenario, but you have the worst case scenario in the background. So if you’ve got that, and with someone like a doula, and you’ve already had that talk about well, if there’s an emergency and you have to go down for an emergency C-section.

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Katy: do you want to know everything that’s going on? Or do you just want to be told what to do, because then that that can then help you as well to be able to sort of like go through it. So it’s the difference between going

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Katy: right. This is what you wanted. You didn’t want to know what was going on properly. You just wanted to be told that everything was all right. And like the immediate things, sign this form, it’s normal. Right? Let’s get that out of the way, or

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Katy: these forms are a waiver in case something else happens, you’re given your consent to be able to go down for a C-section. Can you sign it?

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Katy: They’re both fine to say.

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Katy: but if you say them to the wrong person.

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Katy: you can give them drama.

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Carla Lett: Oh, yeah.

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Katy: That person is like, and how they want their information given to them, and how they want to be spoken to.

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Katy: to be able to give them the right kind of knowledge, and put them in the right headspace for that thing.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. It’s the way you say things, because everyone’s different. And for me it is reassurance. That’s what I just wanted all the time. Like, is this okay? You know, I’m going to die. I mean, I think I’m going to die every day. So I mean, that’s just my like. I mean, I’m not as bad as it used to be, but you know, but.

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Katy: Can stay with you for years, though that’s the thing.

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Carla Lett: Oh, it does, I mean, I think I’ve always had it a little bit. But after that birth experience, and then I had a twin miscarriage, and then had other miscarriages as well, and I think all of it was almost like quite scary, because I’ve not been through them before. So you’re wondering. Is this normal, is it not? And then, you know, and then, my, I go from naught to 1 million where I’m at. So it’s just

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Carla Lett: it is just having that extra voice, just someone that knows and has seen it before been through before that. Yes, this is just something that happens. And you know, like you said, everyone’s different. Some people just want to feel empowered by knowing what’s coming next or just knowing what they’re going through at that time. Yeah.

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Katy: Yeah, I mean, it’s why I’ve been looking. My main thing is looking at birth plans. And I’ve spoken to a few different people like. I said, I’ve got my own podcast. And I’ve been interviewing other people. And one of the ones that I spoke to in the last few weeks was about, trauma informed birth, plans.

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Katy: and.

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Carla Lett: I mean.

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Katy: And she’s just said something to me, and it’s literally the the change of one word.

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Katy: and it changes the entire thing. So you think birth plans. And you think, Oh, well, I want a water birth, and I want twinkly lights, and I want lovely music going on in the background, and I want to do this, and I want to do that.

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Katy: But then, if you put the word support in there

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Katy: and you go birth, support, plan.

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Katy: It then goes, how do I want to be supported? How do I want to feel during my birth? Do I want people to talk to me like this way? Do I want people to give me all of the information? Do I want to be?

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Katy: And if someone different walks into the room, do I want them to tell me what their name is before they start talking to me

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Katy: like that sort of thing.

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Katy: and it’s literally the change of one word. So a birth plan suddenly becomes a birth support plan.

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Katy: and then you can take that birth support plan anywhere, and it doesn’t matter whether you’re

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Katy: out in the blooming wilds of nowhere in a log cabin with twinkly lights.

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Carla Lett: Yeah.

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Katy: Music and all the rest of it, or whether you’re having an emergency C-section.

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Katy: If you’ve got that support plan in place that says I want you to ask me everything I want to be able to tell you, yes or no to everything that happens to me. I want you to give me everything in full detail. I want you to go through the brain acronym with every single stage. Blah! Blah! Blah blah! Or if it’s an emergency, I just want to tell you. I just need you to tell me where I’m going when I’m going, how long it’s going to take. Don’t blather about

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Katy: it’s then becomes your support. So you know, you’re getting the information that you’ve asked for.

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Katy: so that your head can then process what’s going on. So I’m not saying that you’ll never have any kind of traumas, but it reduces that risk of having a trauma, because actually.

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Katy: ultimately, you’re still in control of everything that happens to you, regardless of where you are, what’s happening? What’s going on.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, I love that. It’s so true. And also, you know, look at me with 8 years on with George, and I still kind of. Think. Sometimes I can get a bit emotional when I think about it, because it still is in your mind. And you know, you want to minimalize, not minimalize the birth. Obviously everyone has their own.

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Carla Lett: Some beautiful experiences, you know, and with the help of people like you, Katie, as well. But it’s just kind of knowing that it’s not just that day it affects either. It can.

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Carla Lett: A traumatic birth can actually last a very long time in your mind and traumatize you for quite a long time. It can, you know, affect the bonding of your baby, you know, bonding with your baby, you know there’s so much, and also then when you go on to have other children as well, it’s then, you know, will this be the same? Is it not going to be the same will. I feel the same, and

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Carla Lett: it’s all of those things, and it’s your it’s, you know. Let’s face it. We’re not well, some people are birthing, maybe 2030 kids, certainly not me.

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Katy: Yeah, no, I’m done now.

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Carla Lett: I know, but you only do it so yeah, little, not many times. And you know you don’t want a negative experience to kind of take over the rest of your experience.

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Katy: And I mean, I think, yeah, exactly that. I think my 3rd birth, now that I look back on it, even though I felt

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Katy: like I was in complete control, and I had what’s known as a wild pregnancy. I didn’t inform the Nhs at all that I was pregnant. I didn’t tell my doctor I didn’t go to a scan. I didn’t have a midwife. I completely stepped out of the system altogether.

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Katy: I had 2 private scans that I paid for to make sure that he was all there, had the right amount of fingers and toes. His heartbeat was all the rest of it.

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Katy: and want to make sure that he was growing correctly, and that everything was on track, and to find out whether he was a boy or a girl.

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Katy: I did hire a doula, but I didn’t have a lot.

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Katy: and I think I saw her maybe 3 or 4 times before the actual birth. But for me, the reason that I wanted her there was in case something happened. She was my voice, because I knew that if something happened and I was in the throes of contractions and things I wasn’t going to be able to take a deep enough breath in to say, I want this, this, this and this. I needed someone to stand beside me and say, Don’t do that to her, or do do this to her, or blah blah blah, because I knew I wasn’t going to be able to.

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Katy: I actually transferred in. So I attempted well, I had

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Katy: my home birth set up. I had a birthing pool, all that kind of stuff.

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Katy: and it got to a certain point.

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Katy: and I just knew I needed someone

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Katy: to.

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Katy: He had what’s called a cervical lip.

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Katy: So where the cervix doesn’t quite fully open, and there’s just like a little bit of the cervix just stopping the head from coming out.

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Katy: and it literally all it needs is for

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Katy: for for lack of tact, someone to put their fingers in and just scoot round the skull and move the lip out of the way. Yeah.

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Katy: I couldn’t get into a position myself to be able to do that. Obviously, my Doula is not medically trained so isn’t going to be doing that at all, and I think my partner said something I don’t think I can repeat in.

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Katy: But it it was no basically.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, yeah.

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Katy: And so we we call for an ambulance to get transferred in hospital for that.

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Carla Lett: How about that? Then?

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Carla Lett: How did you find that.

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Katy: My own. I was doing my own vaginal examinations.

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Carla Lett: Wow! Right?

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Katy: So I I knew I was. Yeah. I knew I was 7 cm dilated. I knew my waters hadn’t gone yet.

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Katy: I knew he was engaged and effaced, and things like that. But I just couldn’t get into the right position to be able to move my hand in the right way, to be able to actually just move it myself, otherwise I would have stayed at home.

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Katy: But I also I’m not. I’m not that person that goes well, I’m I’m not having any medical thing blah blah blah. I knew I needed assistance.

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Katy: but I do remember making that decision and bursting tears going. I don’t want to go into hospital, but I don’t have a choice.

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Katy: And then it was. It was quite hard. So once we actually got.

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Carla Lett: When you’ve done all of that work.

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Katy: And did everything that I asked it to do. Yeah.

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Carla Lett: Yeah.

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Katy: Yeah.

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Carla Lett: Hear me. Okay.

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Katy: Yeah. She did everything that I asked her to do, which what?

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Katy: Yeah, I can hear you all right. Have you got.

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Carla Lett: I think it just went a bit slow the screen. But it’s all right, I think. Yeah, go. Sorry. Go on. Yeah. You do learn.

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Katy: No, you’re right.

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Katy: And yeah. So when we got in.

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Katy: obviously the the hospital weren’t expecting us, didn’t know who we were, because I hadn’t.

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Katy: and told them anything.

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Katy: So they were all having a bit of a flap, and and there was, I think, I counted 5 midwives all in this one room all flapping about.

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Katy: and I got hold of my doula and went get them out.

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Katy: And she was like, Okay, so she literally herded them like sheep.

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Katy: She left the head. She left the head midwife, and she said, something like that. This person has trauma birth trauma surrounding this hospital, and she doesn’t want this. Many people in here. We only want in the people who are necessary. Get everybody else out, please, and she literally herded 5 midwives out of the door, and closed the door behind.

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Carla Lett: Oh, wow! Yeah. Well, the thing is that poor hospital. I bet all the other women didn’t have a midwife when they were all in your room.

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Katy: Exactly, exactly.

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Carla Lett: I’m so sorry.

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Katy: Don’t need all these people. Yeah.

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Carla Lett: Wow!

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Katy: So yeah. So she she probably.

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Carla Lett: You wouldn’t have been able to do that in that situation, would you, either?

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Carla Lett: No.

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Katy: I could barely walk by that point, because I was literally once again. Once I got into hospital we’d explained what was going on. They’d had their bit flap and then gone all right, fair enough.

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Katy: I think the whole process. It was about 30 min before I actually then delivered him.

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Katy: So it wasn’t. It was literally that one little thing that I needed, and they’re like, Oh, well, we need to hook you up to an Iv, and we need to do this, and we need. I was like, no, you don’t just catch.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, yeah.

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Katy: Just sit. Just sit there, catch him and bring him up. We’ll be fine.

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Carla Lett: Yeah.

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Katy: And all, all in all.

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Katy: from the minute we walked through the door.

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Katy: To us. Going home with baby was less than 6 h.

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Carla Lett: Wow, that’s amazing.

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Carla Lett: There.

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Katy: Cause. I didn’t want to be there, and they didn’t want me so.

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Carla Lett: No, I know. Well, that’s the thing is well, when you’re I’m not saying you weren’t that 3rd time, but as the 1st time. I think you go through this pregnancy. It’s all being polite, and it’s all kind of yes, okay. And you don’t actually know

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Carla Lett: what you’re allowed and what you’re not. You just kind of get told, don’t you? And that’s all.

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Katy: Yeah. Oh, my.

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Carla Lett: Our wild birth existed.

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Carla Lett: I didn’t even know a wild birds existed.

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Katy: Yeah.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, I wouldn’t have even thought that’s allowed. But it is. Of course you’re yourself. You can make your own choices, can’t you?

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Katy: Yeah, it’s a 30 odd year, old woman. I’ve got to do whatever I want with my own body.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, see? That’s the thing. Because obviously, I don’t work in that industry. And there’s people, you know, that will just be listening, thinking, yes, this is the rules I have to follow. It’s like a map, and you’re scared to kind of come off that because you don’t want anything to go wrong. You love that baby so much.

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Carla Lett: and don’t you? And you just don’t know what’s what you’re allowed to do.

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Katy: This is one of my big soap boxes that I have, that I polish off

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Katy: well, pretty much daily.

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Katy: and I get on it, and I go.

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Katy: These services are offered to you.

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Katy: You don’t have to have them.

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Katy: and you don’t have to have them in their entirety. You can cherry, pick them so if you only want scans and you don’t want anything else, then just have the scans and don’t have anything else. If you want the whole kitten caboodle. You want every midwife, every scan, everything. You want a consultant, you want an elective C-section. You want to go for the whole thing.

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Katy: do the whole thing.

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Katy: but it is a service that’s offered to you. It’s the same as as

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Katy: it’s safe. Starbucks came around one day and went. You will have this latte.

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Katy: and you will drink it because there’s no other choice. You’d go. Well, I don’t. I don’t like coffee. I don’t drink it. Why, I don’t want this.

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Katy: you wouldn’t take it from them.

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Carla Lett: No.

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Katy: But they offer that service. You don’t have to walk through the door. You don’t have to buy the coffee. It’s exactly the same with the Nhs. If you don’t want that service, you don’t have to walk through the door, you don’t have to take it.

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Katy: and anything that they offer you. This is another thing as well. It’s the wording around it. If they offer you something. So if they say we would like to offer you an induction. We would like to offer you the chance for this scan. We would like to offer you this service, but they don’t say that they go. We are booking you in for XY. And Z. It’s like No, no, no, my body.

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Katy: my informed consent. You ask me if I want to do this. You don’t tell me I’m doing it.

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Carla Lett: yeah, exactly.

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Carla Lett: Exactly. No. You’re so right. I mean, that’s that’s the thing. That’s the benefit of having you, really, isn’t it?

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Carla Lett: You don’t you know?

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Carla Lett: Yeah, you’d be great. Honestly, I’d love you to come around and, like, you know, sort the kids out as well, and and.

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Katy: You know, once once you’ve had, once you’ve had the kid, I come round, I can do some washing up for you, and then you’re on your own.

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Carla Lett: Oh, I know. Yeah, that’s it. See you later. No, it’s great, though, that I love all you’re doing. So, Katie. I know. Obviously we could talk for blooming hours, but we really

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Carla Lett: we could but, Katie, I’d love you to tell us a little bit about what you’re working on now, because it sounds amazing for anyone expecting.

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Katy: Yeah. So I am working on helping people make their Birth support plan.

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Katy: And

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Katy: I haven’t got an official date for it yet, because I just want to put the final little tweaks into it. But it’s going to be a 2 day course

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Katy: online through a Facebook Vip group.

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Katy: It’s all completely free, and the aim of it is that anybody who’s pregnant now sorting out their birth plans, and they want to have something in place

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Katy: by the end of the 2 days you’ll have a birth support plan done, written, and you can take that anywhere. And it doesn’t matter whether you’re having a home birth elective C-section. Anything in between. You will have this one page document of your birth support plan

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Katy: done in 2 days.

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Katy: and it’s 1 less thing for you to have to worry about.

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Katy: I love it.

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Carla Lett: And you said, you know so much as well that it’s just amazing, because having that support there, because if someone said to me before I spoke to your birth support plan, I think. Yeah, I’ll have some toast.

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Katy: Yeah.

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Carla Lett: But you know you know all of these things. And also it’s about getting in that headspace of way. We’re writing this out now, you know you are. You might be quite strong in your opinions at the moment, but when you are in a little bit of pain and feeling that bit vulnerable. That’s when things might not go to plan. So when you’ve written that down, it’s there.

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Katy: Yeah, I mean, I’ve also been made really aware recently,

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Katy: my stepdaughter is pregnant, and she’s about 12 weeks or so.

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Katy: and and she was chatting with her dad the other day, and like I’m feeling a little bit because we’ve had a bit of a rough sort of rock and ready and kind of relationship.

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Katy: But she was. She was talking on the phone when I was sat next to him, and she was saying that she’s 12 weeks pregnant. She’s had a couple of scans, and she’s never met a midwife. And I went.

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Katy: What do you mean? She’s never met a midwife, so I’ve never met a midwife.

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Katy: I was like, how have you had scans and never met a midwife? Oh, well, we’ll go in and have the sonographer. They do the scan, and then you got you get sent home. I was like, right, okay.

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Katy: so hang on. Haven’t you had your your booking in because you’re booking in is with your midwife, and it’s an hour and a half in your home, and that is essentially that’s the Nhs’s and birth plan. And you go through all the tick boxes of where you go in, what you’re doing, what you will and won’t consent to. And what have you?

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Katy: And she went. Oh, no, it was a 20 min phone call with a receptionist.

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Carla Lett: I didn’t get that either. Thinking about it. That’s crazy, isn’t it? Yeah.

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Katy: It’s

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Katy: to be, I mean, I know with with I know it was different with my second, because we were in lockdown. And obviously people couldn’t come out to the house in my view, but with my 1st it was an hour and a half with 2 midwives I had that day.

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Katy: and who went through everything. And you go through all your family history, things that are going to increase risks of different bits and pieces. They go through your height, your weight, blah, blah, literally everything, and then they go right. Where are you giving birth? What are your plans? Do you want? Vitamin? K, like all of these things. They go through all. It’s the Nhs’s version of a birth plan.

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Katy: Are they now doing it on the phone?

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Katy: I was like.

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Carla Lett: Okay.

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Katy: Can’t do that on the phone like what you have no idea who this person is. There’s no.

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Carla Lett: Could walk past them in the street, and you don’t even know, yeah.

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Katy: No, there’s no continuity of care. You’re not even meeting anybody like I said. My stepdaughter’s had a few, not issues, but she’s had a few concerns. She’s got no one to talk to, because she doesn’t even know who a midwife is.

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Katy: So it’s like, well, how how is that going to set her up for a good birth.

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Katy: if her pregnancy is like that. Hence, why, I’m doing all of this and going right, let’s get there. So, as I said, the the Facebook course, it will be me chatting like this. So there’s going to be a couple of hours during each day where I’m actually going to be on live people can chat. People can ask questions. There’s an open opportunity, then, for people to ask questions afterwards if they’re needing to watch the replay if they can’t get on live.

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Katy: and it is very.

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Carla Lett: What a good way!

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Katy: If.

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Carla Lett: It’s it’s a good way to meet other people who are also pregnant as well, isn’t it? Because that can be quite a lonely time.

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Katy: Yeah, you know.

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Carla Lett: Everyone else is doing all their kind of going out and doing the bit.

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Katy: Yeah.

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Carla Lett: So it’s nice to actually have a pregnant friend, isn’t it? Yeah.

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Katy: Absolutely just so you can, even if it’s just like 2 o’clock in the morning going, you’re being kicked to death because I’m being kicked to death.

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Carla Lett: Yeah.

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Katy: This is normal.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, I know well, that’s it. It is. And it’s just I love that I love what you’re doing. And obviously underneath. This podcast. As soon as that’s all available we’ll share the links underneath that, because, although people will be listening once this goes out, it’ll be listening further down the road as well, and it’ll probably be.

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Katy: Absolutely.

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Carla Lett: Available then. Yeah, so, Katie, I’ve loved this chat. I feel like we need to do more of these. You like so chatty

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Carla Lett: an 8.

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Katy: Yeah. Oh, yeah, I can talk for England. Yeah.

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Carla Lett: Yeah, when you said that, I thought I don’t know. But actually you’ve given me a run for my money today. So yes, brilliant. I love it. But yeah, it’d be really good, I think, to get another episode on, because there’s so much we could talk about around this, so we’ll get you back on very soon.

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Katy: Awesome.

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Carla Lett: Okay, well, and, Katie, would you mind just also sharing all of the things that you can help parents with?

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Carla Lett: And obviously we’ve covered some of them.

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Katy: Do you have another hour and a half.

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Carla Lett: Your links as well. We’ll put all of those underneath this video on the on demand area and also underneath, the podcast as well. Yeah.

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Katy: So I do a lot of pregnancy stuff. So antenatal education and massage, therapy, reflexology and aromatherapy.

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Katy: as well as obviously all the antenatal Doula side of it. I do the birth, Doula. So obviously I can be there for births and support, whichever way that is. But you can also find me online as well. So if you want and help with things like a birth plan or a birth debrief, if you wanted to share your birth story and things like that. And I have a lot of those that are just online and like, via zoom and things like that.

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Katy: And.

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Carla Lett: Wow!

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Katy: My handles are all different, because they all got up by other people before I managed to get onto so.

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Carla Lett: That we had.

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Carla Lett: I’ve been there. I’ll I’ll share them underneath. This. Podcast so don’t don’t worry. Yeah.

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Katy: I mean mainly if you put in Mother Gaia or Mother Gaia Crabtree, that’s usually where you’ll find most of my stuff. And my website is mothergaia.co.uk.

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Carla Lett: Amazing. I love all that you do, Katie. I honestly I wish I knew about you before my husband had the sniff.

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Carla Lett: because, you know there’s no more for us, and if there is, there’ll be questions.

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Katy: Yeah.

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Carla Lett: But yeah, anyway, Katie, thank you so much for being my guest today.

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Katy: Thanks for having me. It’s been really fun. Alright!

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Carla Lett: Cheers.

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Katy: Like it.

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Carla Lett: Thanks!

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Katy: Bye.

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Carla Lett: Bye.