Infertility, Miscarriage & Baby Loss

Carla: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to 50 shades of motherhood on uncensored, unhinged and unapologetic motherhood chats around the highs, the lows, the struggles, everything really. [00:00:35] This week is definitely an episode that gets me a little bit teary. Um, this week’s episode is around baby loss and miscarriage. And I am keen with 50 shades of motherhood’s raise awareness that first come in all different ways. Some people are in infertility journeys and they’re struggling at the moment. [00:01:03] Some people have had miscarriages that was the people don’t know about. Some people have had baby loss. It’s very, very important to me that we recognise that not every journey is smooth and that there are people that go through difficult journeys while wanting to become mothers. And I really am keen to help other people who have been through it. Or going through it or people that would just like to understand what it is like during this episode. And I hope you enjoy it. [00:01:40] Hello and welcome to 50 shades of motherhood uncensored unhinged unapologetic and today we will be talking openly around baby loss something myself and my guest have both suffered with. And we want to raise awareness and help other parents that may be going through similar things. So my guest today is the lovely Sophie Martin, otherwise known as the infertile midwife on Instagram. So hi Sophie. [00:02:16] Sophie: [00:02:16] Hi Carla, lovely to chat to you today. How are you? [00:02:19]Carla: [00:02:19] I’m very well, thank you very well. How about you? [00:02:24] Sophie: [00:02:24] Yeah, I’m good we’ve the lovely weather down here today. So I’ve been having a lovely day off and in the garden and things. So, yeah. [00:02:30]Carla: [00:02:30] That sounds perfect. That sounds perfect. I’ve actually managed to do a bit of work today, um, which, which was handy because, um, we’re doing the, uh, social distancing garden with George’s grandparents at the moment. So that was quite quite handy. It was a nice little break, so I didn’t get outside much. But I did get a bit of silence. So it was good. So Sophie, um, can you tell us about you if that’s okay to get started? [00:03:02] Sophie: [00:03:02] Yes, of course you can. So I’m Sophie, as Carla said I’m the infertile midwife on Instagram. So I’m a midwife as it says in my handle, I worked in London hospital for eight. And I’m married and I have a little dog and we have been trying to have a baby for the last three years. We’ve done a couple of rounds of IVF. And I, I did get pregnant from our first round of IVF with identical twins, but I went into really premature labor and suddenly they died after they were born. So I run my Instagram page to try and support other women going through infertility and baby loss. [00:03:45]Carla: [00:03:45] I love that. That is honestly, well, I actually found Sophie on Instagram and I was like, wow, I just love what you share and what you’re about, because I think it’s something that a lot of people, no matter what stage you are at pregnancy, a lot of people go through things and it might be that some people, you know, they’re pregnant and they’re very excited and they’ve not told anyone yet. [00:04:06] And, you know, before. You know, they get to that stage where they tell people they can lose the baby. And then it’s really sad because then they end up grieving alone and I’ve spoke to a lot of mums that have been in that situation and whatever stage you lose a baby, it is a very, very difficult time. And it’s so, so hard to deal with. [00:04:25] So, so I love what you’re doing, Sophie. It’s amazing. So if we can go a bit back, I’d love to talk to you about your whole journey. And I’ll also, obviously I lost my twins as well. Um, back last September, which a lot of you are aware about, but I haven’t actually really spoken about it before. Um, so I’m quite open to kind of share my experience in this episode and hopefully between me and Sophie we will be able to help anyone out there that is going through it. And if you’re not going through it, hopefully you’ll be able to understand a little bit more after this episode, you know, just be a bit more mindful when maybe you’re asking people, particular questions and stuff like that, because it’s difficult to know unless you’ve been through it and something, Oh God, I talk a lot. [00:05:09] Don’t I Sophie I’m so sorry. Honestly, Sophie is here. She is. She’s somewhere, sorry, but something that’s very important to me. It’s just. So before I had a baby loss, I, I actually didn’t understand it. And when I used to see it, I fully admit that I was like, we’ll I just don’t. I don’t get it. And it was only when it happened to me that I thought, Oh my God, I feel so awful. [00:05:38] So if you sat there, at home when you don’t understand that, hopefully this will make you understand it a little bit more and why, why is difficult, but anyway, let’s go back and rewind and go back, um, to the beginning with you, Sophie. So when did you know that you wanted to have a baby then? [00:05:57] Sophie: [00:05:57] Oh gosh, I feel like I’ve always known I wanted to have a baby. And I, I think it ties into wanting to be a midwife as well, kind of a fascination with, pregnancy and birth and babies and things like that. I met my husband when we were 19. Yeah, we met at university and we, sort of decided fairly early on that we wanted to, you know, have a family together and, but we didn’t start trying for a baby until after we married. [00:06:26] So we started trying for baby in 2018. After we’d been married, we’ve been married for two years. I think by this point we’d been together. Must have been about nine years. [00:06:41] Carla: [00:06:41] Oh Wow. [00:06:42] Sophie: [00:06:42] Yeah. So we’d been together a really long time, um, before we started trying for baby. And obviously I being a midwife thought, well, this is going to be so easy because I know how to you know I know about all the hormones and I know how to track ovulation so I was a bit smug and thought that we’d get pregnant quite quickly. And that could not have been further from the truth. It was so hard trying for a baby. Really really hard. Really like emotionally difficult. It’s not that fun after a while. [00:07:14] Carla: [00:07:14] Oh, I know. I know. Well, since, um, I lost, uh, the twins, back last September, I was like, right. I want to fill this void straight away. It may, may or may not be the right thing to do, but that is what I had in my mind. And that time, um, of trying, and then. You know that two weeks wait. And you’re like, Oh my God, is that a nipple pain? Maybe I feel sick. Oh I don’t know if I do. And you know, you get excited. You start to think maybe I am. And then that time comes and it’s like, wow. Yeah, no baby. And you’ve just feel devastated. And then it’s going back to the beginning again, like, Oh, let’s try it again. It’s just like an emotional roller coaster trying for a baby. [00:07:58] And, and, you know, I, you know, I’m not saying I’m, I’m very lucky to have George and I am, and I really count my blessings with that but you know, it is so, so difficult. It is such a kind of wave of emotions. I think. What lot of people don’t understand as well is like, do you know if your husband, or if you end up like falling asleep and you don’t do it on the right day, it’s like, I am a, I honestly am proper moody cow. [00:08:26] I’m like, Oh my God, we’ve missed it. It’s another month, it’s another month, it’s awful. [00:08:32] Sophie: [00:08:32] Its devastating if you missed the window, James , my husband and I. At the very beginning, we’re both doing shift work. So if one of us was at work and we missed the ovulation window, you just feel like the whole month is ruined. I always, so it’s like a hope grief, roller coaster. So you spend a couple of weeks being really, really hateful. When you’re in that two week, wait, and then your period comes and you spend another two weeks grieving and then you start all over again. [00:08:59] Carla: [00:08:59] Oh, it is so, so hard. And it’s kind of like, and the age where we’re at as well. And we have, you know, it’s lovely. We’ve got all our friends, you know, we’ve close friends with but you’re seeing people all the time, seeing all this great news of people getting pregnant. And it’s beautiful. But sometimes when you’re in that grieving stage, you just don’t want to see it. And you’re just like, Oh God, what about me? And then babies are being born and like, you’re just like, Oh, I just want one. [00:09:26] And it is so, so hard. Um, so Sophie, do you mind like taking us back to you know your experience? For your baby loss with your baby loss and you know what happened maybe from the beginning, really, you know, finding out, finding out its twins. Cause I have a similar experience and then yeah. You know, obviously they didn’t up to what actually happened? [00:09:49] Sophie: [00:09:49] Yeah, of course. So we, well, after we weren’t making a baby, we decided to, we went, I went to my GP and obviously tries to get the ball rolling. That way. And actually it was just taking so long through the NHS that we decided to go privately. We went to a fertility clinic and pretty much started IVF straight away. And on our first round of IVF, I had one embryo transferred . I did a pregnancy test two weeks later and I was pregnant and then started feeling horrendously unwell, actually just awful morning sickness. And then, um, you, when you have IVF, you have a very early scan sort of six or seven weeks, and I’d had like a tiny little bit of bleeding. So I had one even earlier. I actually had one at five weeks and I had it at the early pregnancy unit at my hospital. So I went in and the stenographer was scanning away. And obviously at this gestation, their vaginal scans. [00:10:52] Carla: [00:10:52] Oh, yes. [00:10:54]Sophie: [00:10:54] Yeah, well, I mean, all of IVFs, vaginal scan, so very used to it by this point, but obviously yeah, I’m there worrying, that I’m having a miscarriage. And the lady scanning me and she says, Oh, did you have one embryo put back or two? And I said one, and I thought she was just being really thorough because when you have IVF, you get like swollen ovaries and things like this. So she spent ages scanning me and then she turned the screen round. And immediately I could see that there was more than one baby in there. [00:11:23] And James, my husband didn’t have had no idea what was going on. And then obviously she told us that there was two and we were absolutely gobsmacked. You know, twins are common with IVF, but that’s usually from having more than one embryo put back. So to have one embryo put back in it, split into two was just unbelievable. So. Yeah, it was amazing feeling. [00:11:45] Carla: [00:11:45] Wow. Were they, um, sharing, were they, um, what’s the word then? Identical. So they were in the same sack where they share in a placenta as well, or how was that? [00:11:54] Sophie: [00:11:54] They actually, they, although they’re identical, they came from one embryo. They weren’t in the same sack, which I was so relieved about because that’s kind of the safest sorts of twins, twins with the least risk. So yeah, they were identical, but they weren’t in the same sack. And then. They didn’t share, placenta but their placentas were fused together. So yeah, I was super happy that they were it’s called DCDA twins, I was really happy that they were that’s because that’s supposed to be the, yeah. The safest sort of twins and then yeah.So then the pregnancy sort of carried on and yeah, I had absolutely awful morning sickness. Just. Awful. And it went on for such a long time. It went on for 18 weeks? [00:12:40] Carla: [00:12:40] Oh my God. Was it all day then Sophie? [00:12:44] Sophie: [00:12:44] I mean. All day. All night. Just absolutely awful. umm. I don’t know how I survived it. And I had really bad anxiety as well. From, I think the IVF, I think I’ve been so used to everything going terribly wrong. That I was just so anxious that something was going to go wrong in the pregnancy. So I, [00:13:06] Carla: [00:13:06] I think as well, when you want something so much, um, and you’ve been, like you said, so disappointed for so long, it gets like it’s almost too good to be true. Sometimes I bet. [00:13:18] Sophie: [00:13:18] Yeah. I mean, I couldn’t believe that the first round of IVF had worked anyway. I mean IVF has got quite low success rate. So the fact that that would work, that we we’re having identical twins. I just felt like I couldn’t, I believe that we were. That were deserving of such a lovely thing. So, yeah, I had a really tough pregnancy. I just felt so a, physically unwell. And then I also felt just emotionally exhausted because I was so anxious the entire time. And I never told really anyone that I was anxious and I, as a midwife, I would, if someone. I would be really upset if I thought a patient wasn’t telling someone how anxious they were, because I know that there’s so much help available and I would really hate for someone to be that anxious. And I did that to myself. I didn’t tell anyone. I was too embarrassed. I didn’t want to bother anyone know. I was gonna say, if anyone is feeling really, really anxious in your pregnancy, please tell someone because you do not have to suffer like that. It was absolutely awful. [00:14:20] Carla: [00:14:20] Did you feel like you were a bit more kind of anxious because of your, because you’re a midwife and you feel like that is your thing that you thought, you know, I know, I know everything and I should be okay. Did you feel that that was a bit of a pressure around you not telling anyone about your anxieties? [00:14:41] Sophie: [00:14:41] Yeah, I guess so. I think you’re right. Obviously when you’re a midwife, you are supposed to know, everything about pregnancy, but actually it’s really difficult for your own midwife. So when you’re pregnant, you’re not thinking like a midwife about yourself. You’re thinking like a mother, like a pregnant, like a pregnant woman. You’re not thinking about the midwifery. So it was a really, really weird mix of, not being able to think with my midwife’s hat on. But also not properly thinking with my pregnant hat on either. [00:15:14] Carla: [00:15:14] Oh, it’s so hard that, yeah. So going through all that and just keeping all those thoughts in your mind and being so unwell is hard I bet. Oh, bless you. So did that go on? So you were sick right until 18 weeks were you, and then did it start to calm down a bit then? [00:15:33] Sophie: [00:15:33] Yeah, then it did start to get a bit better, but then I got really bad pelvic girdle pain. Honestly it was like one thing after another, I felt like I was the worst pregnant person ever. I’d been dreaming of this for such a long [00:15:45] time. And then I was absolutely rubbish of being pregnant. I had really bad pelvic girdle pain. I was, yeah, entirely miserable. I would say for the pregnancy, which is even worse now, knowing obviously that it was going to have a, such a sad ending, but I found it really difficult to be pregnant. [00:16:03] And I think that’s something that’s taught me so much about being a midwife because I find pregnancy hugely fascinating and love looking after pregnant women, but actually knowing that pregnancy is really not enjoyable for everyone is such a useful thing. It’s made my empathy a lot better as a midwife. [00:16:20]Carla: [00:16:20] I bet. I bet. I know because I mean, that’s the thing is after something difficult, you, so, I mean, I’m sure you’ll see a lot of people that have tried for awhile to have a baby. And then when you see them, it’s just, it’s like, I imagine. What, I’d be like next time if I was ever lucky enough to have another one, um, it’s just like a bag of nerves. I don’t think I’d even dare like, I don’t know. I just don’t think I’d dare move. I’d be terrified. [00:16:48] Sophie: [00:16:48] Yeah. Oh, definitely pregnancy after loss or pregnancy after infertility are super hard to navigate. I think they’re a hugely misunderstood as well. [00:16:56] Carla: [00:16:56] Oh, definitely. I agree with you there. Um, so, so after the pelvic girdle pain, then, so you poor thing. It’s just one thing after another bless you. [00:17:07]Sophie: [00:17:07] It felt like one thing after another, after that, I was starting to get into the swing of things. And then we went through our 20 week scan and we had decided not to find out the gender of the babies. We knew obviously they were going to be identical. So we knew it was going to be either two boys or two girls. And at the 20 week scan, they said that one of our twins had talipes, which you might know as club foot, which again is quite unusual because their identity, but one had it and one didn’t. So we, that was kind of a bit of a shock. But club foot can be corrected and you know we were kind of, I guess, I mean, I was upset at the time. [00:17:56] Carla: [00:17:56] Yeah. [00:17:56] Sophie: [00:17:56] But I think that’s like the least of my worries, but. [00:18:00] Carla: [00:18:00] I think it’s just, you just, I know it’s one hurdle put in front of you at the time, each time, really? And I completely get that. It’s just, you go for a scan and you know, you’re thinking, Oh, do we find out the gender and stuff? And you don’t for a second think oh, well the might be anything wrong, even though it is fully fixable. And it is, you know, something that. You know, the babies would absolutely live with, um, it is okay to feel like that as well. I think it’s important to know, it’s okay to feel a bit. I don’t want to say the word disappointed, but you just want to feel like everything’s going smoothly for you, I guess. And there’ll be no hurdles in your way. [00:18:39] Sophie: [00:18:39] Well, I think when everything has been so abnormal in terms of like the conception, I think we were just craving some normality. You know all my friends or people I know get to be so excited in their pregnancy and happy and looking forward to everything. Whereas I just was, anxious before every scan. And I was yeah, nervous all the time, worried that things were going to go wrong. So I just wanted something to be normal and I felt like that never happened. [00:19:08] Carla: [00:19:08] Yeah. And someone just to say at the scan like, do you know everything is absolutely perfect. Everything’s going to be absolutely fine. And maybe just seeking that bit of extra reassurance too, so that you could kind of relax at least for that day anyway. [00:19:24] Sophie: [00:19:24] Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. Yeah. We found out one of the twins had club foot or talipes. So that was that and went away and everything was, you know, we were going to go back the next week for a scan, with a specialist to look at them. It was, my son Cecile, but, look at his foot again. So then the next week I started , I started to kind of get, I started bleeding and so I was 21 weeks pregnant. I started bleeding. So I, obviously called the hospital, went in and they said everything was fine. Not sure where the bleeds coming from, but it stopped now. You can go home. Everything’s fine. So I, I had had a little bleed, so you could see that. Um, but everything was okay to go home. [00:20:18] Carla: [00:20:18] Sorry, Sophie. They can be sub-chronic haemorrhages can’t they? [00:20:23]Sophie: [00:20:23] Yeah. We’re going to sub-chronic hematoma. So yeah I had, had a sub-chronic hematoma and I had had actually, sorry, previous to this, I had had a few small bleeds as well, so it wasn’t anything new, but I had gone a few. I’ve gotten like a bit of a gap without having any bleeding. So I felt like, Oh, we’re back to square one again. So, yeah, so I’d had quite a few bleeds so far, so we, yeah. So had the bleeding went home again, but I started feeling like a bit unwell. But I just carried on, went to work the next day. And went home again and then sort of again, felt that things weren’t right. And then I think I ended up going to hospital the next day, because I thought my waters had broken. And so like I started just getting bleeding, also like really runny kind of what I thought it was my waters. And we went into the hospital, but actually my waters hadn’t broken and it was just kind of watery, funny discharge. And then at that point, my cervix had started to open. And so they kept me in. In my head. Now I look back. I’m like, obviously that had bad news written all over it, but at the time I felt like, Oh, well, I’ll just be on the antenatal ward for a few weeks and everything will be fine. I have no idea why I thought that because this is what I mean about having the different hats, because my midwife hat would be like, Oh, that’s really not great. Where as my pregnant mum hat was like, Oh, well, I’ll just sit here. I’ll be on the antenatal wards. Everything will be fine. They’ll all take care of me. And then I yeah. Stayed in overnight and was getting these pains. And I now looking back, they were contractions, but I, perhaps I was in denial I didn’t really realize, they were contractions. So I had contractions kind of all day, all night, all of the next day. [00:22:15] Carla: [00:22:15] And they’d scanned you at this point had they Sophie and they was then reassuring you again, or? [00:22:21] Sophie: [00:22:21] Yeah, I mean, They, I mean, the babies were fine. They were just happy moving away in there. My cervix, was, yeah, they did they’d done a speculum and it had started to change, but it wasn’t kind of hugely open. And I think they were just kind of watching and waiting and I think they thought I had an infection. So I was kind of just teetering away on the edge of labor really, but not a lot you can do really at that gestation. But yeah, it was having these pains, which I didn’t realize was contractions. And then essentially my water’s just went with this huge gush. And then obviously I realised that that was going to be game over and then the contractions just really ramped up. And, and then, you know, I went round to labor ward and had quite a quick labor. Obviously you had to give birth twice. [00:23:11] Carla: [00:23:11] Oh Gosh. Yeah. Yeah, that part for me was the, oh it’s just, it’s awful really. What you have to go through and it’s all the after bit. And knowing, I mean, I probably, for you in a way it’s worse. Cause you know, probably the outcome and what’s going to happen and you probably see other people go through it as well. And it’s just, Oh, it’s awful. Awful. [00:23:37] Sophie: [00:23:37] I mean obviously, I was 21 weeks pregnant. So I knew that. They weren’t going to survive after they were born. So no one had to tell me that, whereas I guess a non-medical person perhaps might not realize that. So. Before 24 weeks of pregnancy ,24 weeks is considered viability I don’t particularly love that word, but, um, before 24 weeks, your babies have got really low rate of survival and they won’t be offered any medical intervention after they’re born. So essentially after the twins were born, we had to just leave them to die essentially .We couldn’t do any medical help to keep them alive. So. Yeah. I knew during the labor that they would die at the end of it. I mean, I wasn’t even sure if they would survive for labor, but they did. And they, they were alive for quite a long time after they were born as well. [00:24:26] Carla: [00:24:26] Did you get to stay with them, Sophie? [00:24:28] Sophie: [00:24:28] Yeah. So, I mean, after, I obviously you have to give birth twice. So after I gave birth to Cecile, obviously then had to give birth to Wilfred. And so we stayed. Yeah. They stayed with us. Kind of for the whole evening. And then they have, we’ve got a little room that the baby’s go to overnight. Whilst my husband and I slept. Although we could have seen them overnight if we wanted to , and then we had them the whole of the next day as well. And then we went home the next morning. So we said like one final goodbye to them then say, but we could have stayed for longer. And the kind of bereavement services. Oh my, so I gave birth where I work. Which in a way was really nice because I had some really fantastic colleagues there. Although I can’t Imagine how difficult that would have to be for my colleagues to have to look after me at that time. I can’t think of anything worse to have to look after yeah one of your colleagues who’s lost their babies. The bereavement services where I work are actually really good. So yeah, we’ve got like a little bereavement room and you’ve got your own bathroom and little kitchenette, so you don’t have to kind of mix with any other parents. Yes, it was, it was really nice. And I was so thankful that we could spend time with them. We, had a photographer come and take photos of us with the baby. the babies. And it’s a really amazing charity called, remember my baby. And they yeah do exactly what that says. So they come to you the hospital, after you’ve given birth, if your babies have died and they take photos of you with the babies and they’re just so tasteful and beautiful. And when you’re babies have died, You miss out on a lifetime of memories and photos. So I’m so thankful that we have these photos because essentially that’s all we have. [00:26:22] Carla: [00:26:22] Yeah. Oh God, are you getting me emotional now. That is beautiful. It really is. [00:26:30] Sophie: [00:26:30] Those people, who do that are absolute angels in my opinion. I mean, how difficult? [00:26:34] Carla: [00:26:34] Yeah. [00:26:35] Sophie: [00:26:35] The photos are beautiful. I mean, the boys look absolutely perfect. The lady who took the photos was so kind and yeah, we were really thankful that that could happen. [00:26:48] Carla: [00:26:48] Do you still have those pictures up then at home or do you have them as just when you want to look at them, you look at them. How do you work it with that? [00:26:57] Sophie: [00:26:57] Well, I’ve got all of them on my phone, just in case I need to look at them. [00:27:00] Carla: [00:27:00] Aww thats lovely. [00:27:01]Sophie: [00:27:01] Yeah. And then I made an album for my husband with all the photos in as well. And, um, they made a really lovely like slideshow video of all the photos. And yeah, it’s really lovely. Yeah. So we’ve only kind of not long moved house. So we haven’t really got any of the photos on the walls yet, just because we don’t know what we’re doing with the house. [00:27:25]Carla: [00:27:25] Yeah. Decorating and stuff. Yeah. Oh, that’s lovely. That honestly, that’s just, honestly, I’m just in here in tears, no. What you had to go through and everything. It just, it brings it all back. And I just think, um, like I said earlier, I mean, obviously whatever stage you’re at, basically after the twins, I wanted to get pregnant very quickly and after, a few months, in December, I lost the twins in the August and in the sept, in the December, sorry. Um, I got pregnant again and I decided, that I want you to keep it just me and Danny to know. [00:28:04] Sophie: [00:28:04] Yeah. [00:28:04] Carla: [00:28:04] So I didn’t tell anyone, in fact I think of told my best friend. And I didn’t want anyone else to know. I didn’t want to tell my mum and dad, because last time I felt like I let them down and they got excited for a grandchild that never was, grandchildren that never were. And they were so excited that just didn’t want to let them down again. Anyway. Um, I had noticed that no one came back to me on what had happened with the twins. And I booked in for that and I was pregnant at the time I went and finally saw a bereavement counsellor because I felt confident enough to, because I was pregnant. Anyway. I said to her, I’m really scared about losing the baby. She was like, look, it doesn’t happen to many people, it will be fine any way. I was absolutely fine. Took my, pregnancy tablet that morning. I was sticking to my two coffees a day. You read all these things online and think I stuck by the book, you know, for everything. [00:29:03] Sophie: [00:29:03] Yeah. [00:29:03] Carla: [00:29:03] Um, and I went upstairs and I just felt this gush of blood. And I, in that moment, I knew that I had actually lost the baby. I had to ring my mum and dad to come , but then I also had to tell them I was pregnant, but I wasn’t and it was just a really difficult time. Um losing another baby. Um, and no matter what stage of pregnancy you’re at that is a baby and you’ve lost that and [00:29:34] Sophie: [00:29:34] Yeah [00:29:35]Carla: [00:29:35] You’ve lost all the excitement that you felt. I mean, I found out with the six week one quite early because I kept testing so early. I mean, it was ridiculous. Really. I was just like, Oh I might be pregnant God, I’d have had sex the day before. And I’d be blooming doing a pregnancy test the next day, like, Oh, am I pregnant? So I knew really early. And the weird thing was. As I lost that baby, I was actually one of my best friends had actually got me two angel wings for my Pandora bracelet for the twins and she didn’t know I was pregnant and she posted it through the door that day because it was around the twins anniversary. And I um. As I was opening that that is when the gush of blood actually came down my leg and it was really freaky, um, that that happened anyway. Um, so that, that was, it was from there as well. So it’s just been an ongoing hurdle. And then also then I had a chemical pregnancy on the back of that, which is when you’re pregnant, but you don’t get to the point where it’s almost like your periods late but in between. [00:30:39] You’ve got pregnant, but it’s not worked out for, whatever reason, which again, it’s really painful. So there’s a lot of different, loss stories out there. Baby loss stories that need to be recognised. And no loss is easy. Someone who lost a baby at whatever weeks, you know, you’re still as hurt, whatever stage you’re at. You wanted that baby. [00:31:03] Sophie: [00:31:03] Yeah. [00:31:03]Carla: [00:31:03] And it’s really important to recognise that it doesn’t matter how many weeks were it’s okay. To feel sad. It’s okay to cry. It’s okay. To lock yourself away for three days. If that’s what you want to do it’s okay to be sad. The thing that I find really hard and I saw something that really summed it up. [00:31:22] And it’s from the moment you find out you’re pregnant, you’re working out your due date. You’re like, Oh, they’ll be that old then they’ll go to school then they’ll be in the same year as them. And you plan this whole life around your babies and , every day that you’ve got them with you, you’re planning and you don’t realize that when you lose a baby, you lose a life that you have kind of. Envisioned in your mind. [00:31:48] Sophie: [00:31:48] Yeah well you see the future don’t you? And it is the first day of school, you know, the first steps, the first smile. You don’t have any of that. So it’s yeah really tough. [00:32:00] Carla: [00:32:00] It is tough. And did you, I know obviously funerals by, you know and birth certificates, et cetera, but if they have too, is that 24 weeks, that is you get all that kind of stuff or did you manage to get that at 21 weeks? [00:32:14] Sophie: [00:32:14] So if your baby’s born alive at any gestation, you’re entitled to a birth and a death certificate. [00:32:21] Carla: [00:32:21] Right. Yep. [00:32:22] Sophie: [00:32:22] Any gestation if your baby’s born alive and if your baby’s born, dead before 24 weeks, then you. I can’t remember what you get. [00:32:32] Carla: [00:32:32] I got, um, well, mine, see, I was a bit behind you see mine with just short of 16 weeks, but they were born dead. Um, and there was you got, we got a, like a blessing at church and, uh, luckily, you know, we were really lucky. Um, I’m not sure if it’s something a lot of the funeral providers do, but there’s a local funeral providers and they did the coffin and everything for us. And we had it like a normal kind of service. [00:32:59] Sophie: [00:32:59] Yeah, we did like it. Yeah funeral kind of similar to that. [00:33:03] Carla: [00:33:03] Yeah. Did you have your family there? Or did you just have that with your partner? [00:33:08] Sophie: [00:33:08] We had it really small, so it was just me and my husband. And then we had both of our sets of parents and our siblings. So, yeah, we just kept it. Didn’t have anyone else other than our parents and our siblings. And we had them both in one little coffin. [00:33:24] Carla: [00:33:24] That’s what I did as well. Yeah. So with, with mine, um, I mean, a lot of you might already know, but for those of you don’t so I, my story was a bit. Fairly similar to yours. Um, so I, yeah, I got pregnant and I kept having, I didn’t know I was pregnant. It was actually going to a Spice Girls concert the next day. So I kept like thinking I was coming on my period and I kept getting a bit of blood and then it would go. Anyway I was like, Oh, I’ll just do a pregnancy test. And I’d done one a few days before, but I bloody read it wrong. And I thought, I thought it said negative. And then when my husband, he was like, didn’t you do one the other day? I said, yeah, it was negative. Where is it? And stupidly me, I used to hide them in case magically a line would appear or something. Anyway, it did. He was like, no, that says positive. I was like, you’re kidding. No. So anyway, of I toddled to Spice Girls, which was brilliant. Umm. And with my friends and we went there to Wembley, but I did keep getting the spotting and I was a bit nervous at that stage. Obviously. I didn’t know it was twins. Uh, and it was the weekend before father’s day. And I thought, you know, what would be really nice is getting a card for both the granddads cause they were coming around for a barbecue. And get one from my son and then get an another one and just like put a picture of a scan in. [00:34:40] Um, so we went to the scan and the first scan I was around six weeks and she, uh, now this was a private ultrasound clinic. They didn’t actually spot that there were twins, uh, at that stage. So they were like, yeah, you’re pregnant. We were always like, every time with George as well we were like, it’s not twins is it? And they were like, no, absolutely not. And they said the same. Um, anyway, I had a bleed and I had to go to the early pregnancy unit. Um, and they looked and she was like, umm, you’re having twins. I was like, what?. What? Oh my God. Anyway, the shock, I mean, I’m not gonna lie. My husband was like, we’re gonna have to move house. I’m going to have to get a new car. We’re going to have to do this, all these things, go through your head and now looking back, I think God. I should have just embraced every single moment, but that time, it just worried me because I’m not naturally a maternal mother really. And I think I just thought, Oh shit, you know. How am I going to handle two? And then my husband, I could hear him in the background. Double the nursery fees that. I was thinking for fuck sake. Anyway that was that. And it was all once we got used to the idea, I just kept watching all these different videos on, all these different videos on YouTube of these identical twins, but mine were those twins that were in the same sack and sharing the same placenta. [00:36:06] So, um, at first they didn’t ring any alarm bells to me. Really, and then what it was is a midwife rang and she was like, you do know this is very dangerous. And you know, you want to think about all your options there is a likely chance that you might lose them et cetera. And to be honest, I was driving at the time, obviously hands-free, uh, just to put that out there. Um, and I was just pulled over and I just burst into tears and I was just like, Why she’s telling me all this they’re going to be fine, but when I’ve looked into what types of twins they were, I knew that, you know, there were risks. Um, but I just thought, you know, we’re just going to go for it and, you know, hopefully everything would be okay. [00:36:46] Um, and then I went to a scan, um, because with these types of twins, you have to have, I don’t know about you, but ours was every two weeks. We had to have a scan, was yours the same? [00:36:58]Sophie: [00:36:58] No that’s cause you had a more high risk twins. Mine was monthly. [00:37:03] Carla: [00:37:03] Ah monthly right yes. We went back. So I went, um, the fourteen week. And then when at 16 weeks for a scan, honestly, the, Oh, the sound of that honestly I’m terrified ever to go for another scan. If I ever get that opportunity in my life, it was just. So we went in and there was this midwife that, to be honest with you, and I’m, don’t often do this. She was rude. The first time we went in and I can’t, I can never understand people, not when midwives, sorry, sonographer. Um, and I can’t really understand it when people are like that, because people are very nervous. Um, and you know, so she was quite like that. And anyway, the second time we got her, she was absolutely lovely, but obviously she was having to tell me the bad news because we went in for the scan and I was just laying there. And I was so nervous. I mean, I was shaking and to be honest, I hadn’t really had any majorly bad news, I did keep having the bleeds so I was a bit nervous about that. But anyway, it just. fell, just silence. It was just like a deafening sound of silence. And I was just like, and I was staring at my husband. And I was like saying, what is it? What is it? And I could just feel the, you know, they, um, what’s it called? That thing. I’m useless aren’t I? The thing that they put over your belly, right? Yeah. It would just putting that over and it was going from side to side and I knew, and she said and she put her hand on me. She just said, I’m really sorry. And I just thought, Oh my God, there must be at least one, there must be at least one left. And she said the both died and she got the other lady in and I was just like, well I just didn’t know what to do, and then the worst part is the layout. I don’t know about your hospital, but the layout of the hospital was you have to walk in front of like other people and there were actually people. That I knew in there, waiting for their normal scans as well. To go into this side room. So it was just, I just felt like, Oh, it was just awful. Uh, the whole thing. And, um, anyway, the silence, it was just, you know, the bereavement side of things were good. Umm. But because they’d died, um, and they can’t do anything straight away cause of the gestation they were, I had to give birth to them, which with George I had a C-section and I was that scared of labor anyway, I was quite relieved when they said George was the Csection. So when they said I’d have to give birth I was like, what the hell. I’ve had a phobia. God, I’ve got phobias about everything. Honestly. I’m like a blooming baby but like when they said I had to give birth, I was like, Oh my God, I just couldn’t for the life of me, get my head round it. So I had to go home with the babies inside me for two days. And we were due to go on holiday the following week. And my husband’s like, what do you want it to do? And I thought. Do you know, it probably do me good. So I had to go shopping and with the babies inside me knowing they were dead and people like smiling and looking at my bump and, you know, and you’re just like, Oh my God, it was just a long drawn out process. Really. Anyway, I went in and obviously gave birth the twins, which came out separately. And then to have an operation afterwards, anyway, to get the placenta out as well. [00:40:08] Sophie: [00:40:08] So did I. [00:40:10] Carla: [00:40:10] Oh I know, I couldn’t believe it honestly, I was like. [00:40:14] Sophie: [00:40:14] Mine was five weeks later. [00:40:17] Carla: [00:40:17] Oh really? [00:40:20] Sophie: [00:40:20] Well, no, you finish your story first. [00:40:21] Carla: [00:40:21] No. No. Honestly. You go for it. Tell me. [00:40:26] Sophie: [00:40:26] Basically. So everyone bleeds after they give birth, obviously. And it just is heavy for a few days and then gets lighter and lighter and lighter. And I really don’t know what I was thinking. I wasn’t thinking that was the problem. I obviously did not have my midwife hat on at all. And then I think I just needed to get through the funeral. The funeral was a month later. Well just over a month later. So I yeah, was bleeding quite heavily for the whole month. And. It was just getting heavier and heavier. And then after the funeral, it just started getting really, really heavy. And I thought if I went to bed, I thought I was going to die in my sleep. I just had this feeling that I was going to die. So James took me to A and E and I was still really heavily bleeding and yeah realised that there was still some, placenta in there. [00:41:14] Carla: [00:41:14] Oh god bless you. It can be dangerous can’t it? [00:41:17]Sophie: [00:41:17] Yeah. Well, I could have bled to death, but no, I didn’t and I was fine. And so I had an operation a few days later, to get the bit of placenta out which didn’t work. And I ended up actually bleeding for 13 weeks after giving birth. And I passed that last bit of placenta by myself in the end. [00:41:34] Carla: [00:41:34] Oh my God. Sorry to be graphic. Did you see it come out or did you know that was it? [00:41:40]Sophie: [00:41:40] Just the bleeding stopped. And I went back to my, to the hospital for a scan because I phoned up and said the bleedings stopped and yeah, it was gone and. Similarly to what you said earlier, you were just so desperate to have a baby again. I was so desperate to have a baby and I was so angry because three months had gone past after I’d given birth. And I had bled for the entire time and I felt like that was three months. I could have tried for a baby, which I know is so ridiculous because I’d only just you know lost my other two, but I, was so angry at everything going wrong, like it’s not. My children had died and then I couldn’t even deliver the placenta properly. So I’d given it. I had do delivered the placenta at the time. Um, I mean, it took a really long time to come out. And we didn’t realize at the time that a bit of it was missing. So yeah, that saga went on for 13 weeks after giving birth, it was not fun. [00:42:39] Carla: [00:42:39] Oh no, absolutely not. Oh God. Oh, it is. You poor girl. Yeah. I mean, that’s what I, in my head, I was like, right. We’re going to start trying straight away. Honestly. I actually don’t think I dealt with it and I still haven’t for me. I don’t know about you, but I know for a fact that haven’t. But I could talk about it okay and stuff. But if I go away from here tonight. I won’t let myself think about it, um, because it really upsets me. And the only time that I actually do it sounds silly, but if I’ve had a wine and the house is a bit silent, I mean I have a wine alot, I’m not gonna lie. But if there’s music on and it’s happy vibes and it’s great. But I have the twins ashes in the front room, which some people might think that’s strange, but I just, the thought of like putting them outside. And that was just so scared of because I just, like, I just thought, well, what if we move? And I just don’t want them to be cold and stuff. So I’ve still, I’ve still not decided what to do. So I have a little area in the front room . [00:43:38] Sophie: [00:43:38] We had some made into jewellery. So that’s a really nice idea. We had ours put into a ring each. Only a little bit of this and we’ve got the rest of the ashes. So we wear that ring all the time and I feel like I’m taking a little bit of them with me. [00:43:54] Carla: [00:43:54] Oh, that’s so nice. Do you know what puts me off with that is because I lose things I’m awful and you know, I’d beat myself up. I’d beat myself up. If it ever went missing, I would just, I don’t know. Um, I just, Oh, I don’t know. I But it is that is a really nice idea. And I did look into that and I think I’m just waiting for something to come and be ready to kind of move, not move on because I don’t think you ever do . But I think move forward with where the final place is going to be. I just don’t know yet. But I mean, how did you cope afterwards? I mean, what, what, how did you. Find yourself again, really? [00:44:34] Sophie: [00:44:34] I went back to work really quickly. So I went back to work at seven weeks after I gave birth still with the retained placenta. Oh, just because I was desperate for some normality and I felt like my entire world had been turned on its head. And I just didn’t want to be in the house anymore. I just wanted, yeah I wanted my life back, obviously my life is never coming back. I think your life changes forever once your children have died. And so yeah, just worked. And then I was like right we’re trying for a baby straight away. Obviously I thought we needed IVF. And so we went back to our clinic to try and start IVF again. And then, um, we realised that I had a problem with my cervix and that was why I had gone into labor in the first place. [00:45:24] Carla: [00:45:24] Oh really? [00:45:28]Sophie: [00:45:28] So we didn’t realize that this time I had in competent cervix, which is when, which is why I had gone into labor so early, my cervix wasn’t strong enough. So then I had another operation . [00:45:39] Carla: [00:45:39] Is that when they put the [00:45:41] Sophie: [00:45:41] Stitch [00:45:42]Carla: [00:45:42] Yes. That’s it. [00:45:43] Sophie: [00:45:43] Yeah. So I’ve had a permanent stitch put into my cervix now. So it’s a big operation. So I’ve got a scar which is exactly the same as a C-section scar. So I had that. And then, and then a month later I started IVF again. That was a complete disaster. Um, but that’s kind of how I have, coped I guess it’s just focusing on trying to have another baby now. I don’t believe another baby would replace Cecile and Wilfred. Absolutely not. It would just help us have some joy again. [00:46:19] Carla: [00:46:19] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was one of the first thoughts that crossed my mind when they, when they took us into that room after the scan, um, I kept thinking. Poor people that have to go through this and don’t have a baby at home, and I’m not meaning that in a way to make sure being patronising or anything like that, that you think. But, um, I was lucky to have George and you know. I just need to say that that really upset me sitting in that room and thinking that people would go back to not having a George. And going back to these empty houses where they’d prepared things for the baby. And that just really did upset me that. [00:46:57] Sophie: [00:46:57] Well, I think that’s actually a really nice thing to say Carla. Because I think. Well, hopefully it will just make you know hug George a bit tighter and know hes so special. [00:47:07] Carla: [00:47:07] He is and I think, um, do you know it’s hard because I suppose I used to think, Oh, what if i don’t get pregnant? Cause I worry about pretty much everything. Uh, anyway, with George, it came so easily, I suppose I’d never thought of any complications after and a lot of people suffer with secondary infertility as well. Um, and a think. I think with mis not miscarriage. I know obviously yours is baby loss. Mine. I think it still counts as, as miscarriage, but whatever you go through that side of things there, I think it’s so difficult to deal with, especially if you feel like you’re on your own. And a lot of people don’t actually talk about it and don’t say, well, I felt like this, or I’m still struggling, or, you know, cause I just don’t think there’s enough out there enough people that talk about it really. Um, and yeah, I mean, I had a message from one of my friends on Instagram the other day, I’ve never met her actually. I’ve got a few like that on Instagram and she suffered a miscarriage and you know, it really upset me because she was early. She’d not told anyone. And she, she has to sit there at home and go through all this stuff. It just really upset me. Oh god I’m like an emotional wreck tonight I didn’t expect it. It’s all awful. [00:48:23] Sophie: [00:48:23] Yeah, the 12 week kind of rule is I don’t agree with it. I think you tell people whenever you feel ready. But I do think it’s really hard to announce a miscarriage at the same time as that pregnancy. [00:48:36] Carla: [00:48:36] Oh yeah. [00:48:37]Sophie: [00:48:37] Difficult for people to support you through miscarriage. If they didn’t know you were pregnant. [00:48:40] Carla: [00:48:40] Exactly. Because also like, they’ve, I feel like I announced mine, um, around 12 weeks or 14 weeks actually. Uh, just when I thought, right, I’m comfortable with this now. And I did. And you know, I don’t regret that because. What happened then is I could then people understood a bit more. When, it did happen. And I was quite open with my followers. Cause I’d got my bump to baby from when I had George. You see? So what got a mummy blogger kind of thing there. And I was quite open about the miscarriage and stuff and that support that I’d got. I mean, I’ve got cards in the post from people I’d never met. I got like cakes and things like that posted through the door and just thought people are so kind. Um, and that support that I got from those people, and my closest friends as well were just amazing. It made me realize how kind people are and how much more I want to kind of be kind to others as well. [00:49:34]Sophie: [00:49:34] Definitely. I mean, yeah. I feel like my empathy is much deeper now. That I’ve had such a kind of experience of grief. [00:49:43] Carla: [00:49:43] Yeah, it is, it really is. And it really upsets me every time I see someone that’s had to go through it just, Oh, it’s like, it just really hurts. I just feel what they’re feeling. I just understand that at that time. And it’s just. Really difficult. And I think it’s hard also for all the people like I had, um, one of my best friends, actually, she went through it when she was around eight weeks pregnant. And the hardest thing is when you’ve not been through it for other people listening, is knowing what to say, knowing whether to say something or whether not to say something or, you know, because nothing you say is going to probably be the right thing to say, you know? [00:50:24] Sophie: [00:50:24] Uh, it’s such a tough one. I found that I would much rather someone or this is just me personally, but I really hated it when people ignored what had happened. So my whole world has been flipped on its head and some people we’re too frightened to say anything. And I can understand why it’s a really difficult subject to broach, but I much preferred, when people actually acknowledged what had happened. So just said, I’m really sorry. And that’s all you have to say. I’m really sorry. Or I’m thinking of you or I’m there for you. It doesn’t have to be long or complicated, you know, if you’ve not experienced baby loss, it’s really difficult to understand. Where as just simple things like I’m thinking of you, I’m here for you. I’m sorry for what’s happened. Rather than not saying anything at all. Yeah. So if you know anyone who is going through baby loss, miscarriage, anything like that, I think don’t ignore it. I know it’s difficult thing to talk about, but honestly it will be. I found it much, even though it’s difficult for people to say those words to me, I really appreciated it when they did, rather than when they ignored it. [00:51:31] Because I felt that people weren’t acknowledging how important the twins were to me, if they, didn’t say anything at all. [00:51:39]Carla: [00:51:39] I totally agree with you. And I actually, uh, channeled mine, like I started to get a bit like noticing, like people that were kind of doing that. And then I started getting a bit of a complex, like, um, and I didn’t like that, um, that I started to be like that. So I totally agree with you. And it is hard for people to know what to say and you know, one of the best messages that I got actually was a girl that I’m friends with, that George goes to school with and she messaged and just said, yeah, can you, can you share how you’d like, people to speak to you, you know, when they see you, would you like to people to hug you or would you like people to not. [00:52:14] And I thought that was really lovely thing to ask because I suppose I didn’t think about it really. And everyone has, yeah. It’s quite a good thing to say because everyone’s different. Some people might not want a hug or whatever or. I think. The trouble is you don’t know what you want at that stage. Um, but you just know that you want people to know and that. It’s hard because people you bump into people don’t you and where I live. I don’t know about where it is, if it’s the same way you are, but where I live, it’s very, quite a small area. So everyone knows everyone. Everyone’s you know kind of had boyfriends that were also, you know, you’ve had as well it’s one of those places. Um, I went into the sun-bed shop. Um, afterwards and I didn’t even really know the lady, to be honest. I had no idea who I thought, that thought she would have know me, but obviously I share quite a bit on social media and she just said, I’m so sorry. And I thought that was so lovely for someone to say but shocked me at like, Oh God. Like I didn’t realize so many people knew and sometimes you’re not ready to. Sometimes you go into a shop and you just want to like, just not see anyone and not talk about it. But to be honest, the sooner you can get talking about it and stuff, I think the easier it becomes really well, it was for me anyway. I don’t know about you? [00:53:34]Sophie: [00:53:34] I don’t know. It all blurs into one. I’m not sure how I survived it. To be honest, I was living in London at the time. So it was, yeah, I could walk around and people wouldn’t no or anything like that, but, um, I did have quite a lot of anxiety about going out after I gave birth to twins. So if I had my own way, I wouldn’t have left the house for quite a long time. Yeah. I found it quite difficult to leave the house. I didn’t want everyone staring at me, even though I lived in London. But yeah, I felt really nervous about leaving the house. Just because like normal life was going on around me, whereas my life had stood still. [00:54:15] Carla: [00:54:15] Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, although of course your friends are there for you and they’re amazing for you. But eventually, obviously the messages stopped, which is absolutely understandable. People get on with their own lives, life continues. And, um, and then it’s almost like other people are getting on with their life. And that hurts again. It’s like another. Kind of, everyone’s moved on from it. And you haven’t, and one of the most hardest things I did actually a couple of weeks afterwards. I’ve got one of my really good friends actually had a baby shower. And I just really didn’t want to let her down. [00:54:51]Sophie: [00:54:51] What and you went? [00:54:54] Carla: [00:54:54] Yeah I went. Do you know, I was trying to, because she was pregnant well before me, I didn’t link our things together really, but I thought I don’t want to let her down. I don’t want to let her down. She was like, no, don’ t come honestly, it’s fine. And I know for a fact she would have been absolutely fine about it, but, um, so I went, and I was sat there, um, we started to play baby bingo. And do you know what the first word that got pulled out was? Twins. And I was like, Oh my God. Well, I started crying. My bottom lip was going and you know, when, you know, no one was, but you know, when you feel like everyone is staring at you, cause everyone knows and you know, that you know, this has just happened. I was like, Oh, I had to leave. Cause it was just too much. And I mean, I was silly even doing that really but at the time, part of you wants to, you want to grieve, but then part of you wants to move on as well and kind of be there for other people that are going through their own pregnancy journeys and not be kind of. I suppose you can easily get to the point where you like just in your self. I didn’t want to be one of those friends that isn’t as supportive for my friend. I wanted to show that I was being supportive, but it was probably a bit too soon for me, really? [00:56:08] Sophie: [00:56:08] Gosh. Yeah. I mean I have, yeah, I don’t go to baby showers or I find them too hard. [00:56:13] Carla: [00:56:13] No. You’re good for saying that because I’m just a people pleaser. Honestly, if someone should, if someone asks me to shave my cat, I probably would, but no, no, not if my cat didn’t want to, of course that’s probably a bad example, but honestly I just am a bit of a people pleaser. So sometimes I can end up doing things that I’m not really comfortable doing. Um, but it’s it’s hard. It is hard. And then I think hopefully, I mean, I mean, gosh, we’ve been talking a while now I’m unconscious of time. So sorry about that, but tell me where you’re up to actually now on your, on your fertility journey at the moment, then Sophie. [00:56:53] Sophie: [00:56:53] So we are, well, thanks to coronavirus. We had to delay our IVF for a few months but we just starting our third round of IVF. They week. [00:57:05]Carla: [00:57:05] Amazing. And are you having to do this privately or do you get help from that, from the NHS? I’m not sure how it all works. [00:57:12] Sophie: [00:57:12] So we’ve not been eligible for any NHS funding where there is no NHS funding where we live. And so we have self funded it all. [00:57:20] Carla: [00:57:20] Oh my God. Goodness. Oh, wow. [00:57:22]Sophie: [00:57:22] We are never going out ever again. Because if I do have a child, I’ve spent all of their birthday and Christmas money. Just making them. [00:57:29] Carla: [00:57:29] Yeah. That’s all right. That’s all right. They won’t mind I’m sure. But yes. So you were up to that. That’s exciting then so is that, that starting at the moment then? [00:57:40] Sophie: [00:57:40] Yeah. So I started taking a lot of pre-medication and then hopefully we can start the stimulation as soon as my period makes an arrival. [00:57:48] Carla: [00:57:48] Amazing. Oh, that is so exciting. I’m really, fingers crossed. I will be following your journey anyway, and always here. You know, obviously if you want to talk about anything, it’s been really lovely talking to you and talking to someone else that is actually been through a similar situation because it’s not often you find someone you can have an open chat with and just talk about because your friends are so quick to kind of put their arm around you and say, you know, it’ll be okay. And it’s a natural thing to do, but to have an actual talk with someone that’s been through it and hopefully between us it will help someone else out there that has also experienced it. And if anyone wants to message me, even if you know me or I know your friends or whatever, it stays absolutely confidential. If there is anything that you want to talk about any time on the phone? Meet up, obviously not during lockdown, maybe in the garden, then please do get in touch with me because I’m really happy to help anyone that is struggling at the moment with this. Not at the moment forever. So my inbox is always open. [00:58:51] Sophie: [00:58:51] Yeah and mine too definitely if you want to chat infertility or baby loss I’m always happy to be a shoulder to cry on. [00:59:00] Carla: [00:59:00] Thank you Sophie. And can you tell parents where they can find you then? And also what we’ll do is we’ll put Sophie’s links in the show notes as well. Um, and yeah, fire away, Sophie, where can we find you? [00:59:13]Sophie: [00:59:13] Um, so you can find me on Instagram, which is @theinfertilemidwife, or I’ve got a blog, which is theinfertilemidwive.com And they are the main places you can find me. Yeah, that’s pretty much it. [00:59:26] Carla: [00:59:26] Oh, well, thank you so much. Sophie honestly, I didn’t, I thought today I was like, right, we’re recording this podcast. I’m going to be fine. I’m going to be fine. I’m going to be fine. But you know, it just, it’s more, when I hear other people’s stories, it really like hurts. Um, it really just does upset me, but hopefully soon, both of us one day we’ll have some great news to share. So, um, but in the meantime, anyway, um, Sophie, I will, uh, let you go and enjoy your evening. So thank you so much. [00:59:56] Sophie: [00:59:56] You too. Lovely to chat. Yeah. [01:00:00] Carla: [01:00:00] And you and you. [01:00:02] Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of 50 shades of motherhood, I thoroughly enjoyed it. And I hope you guys did too. If you are enjoying the podcast so far, which I really hope you are. And if you’ve got this far, why are you still listening? If you don’t ? But I would absolutely love you to subscribe and leave me a little rating. It means the world to me, and also helps me out massively, especially when I go to Danny and tell him that I’m going to be doing series two fingers crossed. So I look forward to speaking to you next week and keep an eye on the Facebook page and Instagram. So you know who the next guest is. You will absolutely love it. I know it. [01:00:53] This podcast is sponsored by my bump to baby family protection and legal directory. Being a parent is such a minefield. It’s so difficult deciding who to select when it comes to financial advice or family law solicitors. My bump to baby works with one trusted financial advisor and one trusted family law, solicitor in each town throughout the whole of the UK to find your nearest advisor or family law, solicitor, head over to www.mybumpebaby.com/familyprotectionlegal.